Smart City and other developmental issues

With Opposition leader, V.S.Achutahandan opposing the setting up of Smart City at Kakkanadu, Cochin, the anti developmental rhetoric in Kerala has reached new heights. In this juncture, it is worthwhile to take a look at the states abysmal employment and developmental record.

The IT industry has become Indias biggest foreign export earner with around 78,000 crores rupees in the year 2004. This industry has been growing at the rate of 35% for the past 5 years and is expected to reach 100,000 crores rupees in revenue in 2005. The industry employs around 5 lakh people today and is expected to generate 30 lakh jobs in the next 10 years. The three states, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Andhra have a combined share of around 60% of Indian IT industry. (Source: Nasscom). Only Kerala among the south Indian states has lagged behind in this sun rise sector. Does this mean that malayalis are not good at IT?

Take a look at the IT shops in Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad and the rest of the country almost a lakh of the 5 lakh workers today are Malayalis. This is over and above thousands of Malayali professionals working in foreign countries in this field. Does it show the brain power of malayalis or the failure of Kerala in providing those jobs? In the next 10 years, if we go by the figures at least 5 lakhs of the available 30 lakhs jobs should go to Keralites. Today 1 lakh Malayali IT professionals earn around 3,000 crore rupees a year of which some part gets repatriated to Kerala. This has largely sustained Kerala in the wake of ever decreasing inflow from gulf and kept the money order economy floating. But at least 60% of this money is spent in the local economy and is not available for Keralas benefit.

In spite of such large number of IT professionals, why IT companies did not come in a major way to Kerala? The apathy, ignorance and anti developmental attitudes of politician!
s may be the answer. And that continues in the recent episode of smart city as well.

We have to understand one thing; the world has changed a lot in the last 2 decades. Our politicians and public refuse to accept the facts. World wide, a knowledge economy has come into being, with India and China emerging as the biggest forces driving this economy. Human capital is the biggest capital today. Kerala has some of the finest human resources in the world. But in the past, a lot many youths had to either get exiled in search of a job or wither away their abilities in silent agony.

The smart city may be Keralas last chance to provide jobs for lakhs of its children. This project is a start which can eventually tap the potential of 5 lakh IT jobs in Kerala. This project envisages providing jobs to at least 33,000 IT professionals in 10 years. This is one of the biggest mass employment projects to come to Kerala. Many such projects should follow. In a state with lakhs of highly educated unemployed youth, this should have been welcomed. Instead in Kerala, we see vehement resistance from some corners. What does that explain?

Our politicians seem to think that IT is for the elite and do not benefit common man. Nothing may be far from the truth. It is they who deny IT to the masses. The 1 lakh Malayali IT professionals all belong to middle class families in Kerala and are not coming from an elite milieu. The IT worker is somebody who sells his expertise for sustenance like workers in any other Industry. For each IT job created, there is another job created in other sectors. Sectors like food and hospitality, healthcare, real estate, transport, security, construction, retail all benefit immensely. The buoyancy 5 lakh IT jobs can bring to Kerala is enormous.

With Malayali distancing himself from manual labor, the educated youth can only be accommodated in sun rise industries which provide ever increasing opportunities to third world youth. IT, Biotech, Healthcare, Hospitality!
, Media are mass employment sectors for highly educated youth.

Does this mean that we have to stop thinking about common laborers, daily workers etc. Not at all. Garment manufacturing and food processing are sun rise sectors that can mass employ unskilled and semiskilled labor. These opportunities also need to be simultaneously developed. The IT boom can help raise the massive resources required for this.

With valuable man power going out of Kerala, we are also loosing heads to think about the states future. People who can dream and shape a vision for Kerala, people who can effectively lead Keralas leap into 21st century, people who can raise average Malayali brethren to knowledge economy.

Is IT for real? Last 20 years statistics speaks for itself. Why is permanency of job not an issue with IT industry? The IT workers expertise is in great demand. With the world not being able to produce enough IT personnel, job may not be an issue to IT professional for years to come.

Now coming to allegations on the smart city, the opposition leader seems to have alleged widespread corruption in allotting land. He claims that land in Kakkanadu and Brahmapuram are worth 35 cores/acre. Even a child can see through this lie. The costliest place in Kerala, Cochin Marine Drive goes at 10 lakhs/cent. The prevailing land price in and around the proposed region is 30,000-50,000/cent. Please ask the natives if you are in doubt. Also the government of Kerala has agreed to sell the Info park they constructed for 70 crores at 109 crores. This is the fair price considering that the park is only 2 years old. This is the same place where thousands of acres given free to public enterprises have not generated even a single job. The Dubai Internet City is an IT promoter and provider of facilities to IT companies. Such facilities are essential for large scale IT development.

If the opposition leader and other vested interests are raising blatantly baseless allegations, there is so!
mething that is lurking behind. What may be their interest in preventing jobs to lakhs of Keralites, rich and poor alike? We just need to see political climate in Kerala to find an answer.

In the 1970s lakhs of our youth were packed off to gulf to look out for jobs to sustain their kith and kin. The Kerala model is built on their tears and sweat. In the mean time, the lumpen elements that were left behind, usurped political power and started dictating terms. They found that sending educated people out of the state is convenient for their goals of sustaining in power. Take a look at our politicians, how many of them have any education to boast? By keeping the masses impoverished and ignorant, they can use them to extend their goals. Anybody who could even question them could not stay back as there was no job to sustain them. The Kerala intelligentsia was never allowed to start developmental dialogs. Instead, they were made to raise voices on various issues suiting these politicians, and finally they were silenced.


Back in IT shops in different parts of India, I have seen Malayalis who hope to go back one day to their beloved land. They want to come back to the motherland from which they were banished years ago by a state that failed them. In numerous colleges in Kerala, I have seen students coming out with no aim in life, nothing to hope for except the faint dream of getting a visa to gulf sometime to get out of their misery. I have seen people who cannot feed their children and commit mass suicide.

Only a society that can dream for its children can look towards a better future. By letting our dreams wither away, we have become a dead society. The late E.M.S wrote about the great concept of Kerala in his famous article “Keralam Malayalikaludey Mathrubhumi. That was more than 50 years back. If its own sons are exiled and banished from Kerala, will the concept last long?

(By Anuraj K.E, The author is an IT researcher based in Bangalore. Reach him at
anurajke@yahoo.com)

-------------------------------------------
John Mathew

5/20/2005
03:54:36 An open letter to our CM -on Smart city-

Message:
Dear Chief Minister,

This is regarding your efforts to bring Smart City to Kerala and your subsequent press briefings.Its been brought out as if all this is done for us - IT professionals. Could you please make certain things clear?

Why do you talk about Labor camps in Dubai to justify giving land to Dubai Internet City (DIC)? How are they related? Then why are you not
talking of the less deprived here ? Our Adivasis were cheated time and again citing there is no free land available for them. How then can
you say you are giving off 100 acres of land 'left over' after Bramapuram project? So its just a ploy . You happily ignore the fact that its in the very same city where you saw the so called heaven that
you saw the miserable labor camp too. You are just looking for excuses and blames it on us the IT professionals. We would like to make some things clear.

The exodus of experienced IT professionals is the greatest challenge that any software company faces today. You ask any IT firm they'll very clearly say attrition is the greatest threat. In the case of IT at least , our professionals are going abroad NOT because they couldn't get a job here but because they got a job here and was
experienced enough to go abroad and earn more. Mr. Chief Minister, you didn't find any of us in those labour camps. We are going abroad by choice and not because we are forced to.

IT firms have focused on Kerala because we are qualified enough and the labor here is comparatively cheap. Not because you construct a
building there. The much needed infrastructure that of electricity and water should still be provided by our Government. Connectivity is
cheap , easy and fast. What else are you looking for from DIC?!

Building constitutes just 10% of the infrastructure.

DIC is not an IT firm. They are into real estate business. HOW can you give them those incentives which can be given only to IT firms? It cannot even be classified as a private park as private IT parks can only house IT or ITES firms. THEN HOW CAN YOU DEAL WITH THEM AS PER IT POLICY? Do you have any assurance that they'll use these land ONLY FOR IT OR ITES operations? Any written assurance? Or will you also like your predecessor Mr. Antony as in the case of self financing
colleges come back to us with crocodile tears and say they betrayed me? Or is this a ploy to extend all these facilities to Muthoot group and its private technopolis too?

How did you come to this figure of 33300 jobs? How was this projection made? Any project management basics will tell you that the number of resources depends on the work in hand and duration. Have you estimated the work? You are just trying to fool the public again. IT policy to encourage less land utilization says every IT firm that employee 100
people or more per 0.3 acres of land consumed will be given an incentive. And DIC wants 100 acres free. IF 0.3 acres = 100 then 1
acre = 333 then 100 acre = 33300.
THIS MIGHT BE THE FIRST DEAL ON EARTH WHERE JOB OPPURTUNITIES ARE DETERMINED BY THE LAND GIVEN FREE. If there is any other arithmetic
behind this 33300 ,then we challenge the government to come up with that. But Mr. CM we now understand why we are in debt. Your calculator
sensed your intentions and ditched you .To maintain the density for subsidy the job opportunities should be 33333 not 33300. And also its not just 100 acres its more than 300 acres.

You say the deal is because government does not have funds to build the needed infrastructure. WHY THEN ARE YOU SELLING INFOPARK? It has all the infrastructure you can ask for.If there is something more required let the government name it. You have 26 companies operating there already. Around 4 lakh built up space constructed at Rs 1600/sq. ft. A monthly income from rent at Rs 16/sq. ft. Why do you throw this up?

We don't say you accepted bribe but you will have to explain why you manipulate and twist facts and favour a foreign firm there by surrendering our interest.

1) You said the deal is between Dubai government and Kerala government. Isn't this a lie? Has Dubai government assured us 33300 jobs? Can you specify who signed the deal for Dubai government?
2) You cite IT policy to cover up the land deal. How can you deal with DIC with IT policy? IS it an IT Firm? 3) Of the 300 acres gifted, have you at least obtained in writing how much acres will be set aside for IT? Then will you make that public?
4) Have they informed you that they will be going for residential complex and amusement parks there? If so why do you cite IT job opportunities as a cover up?
5) You say you won the deal even though AP, Karnataka and TN were after this. Do you know that they had an MoU signed with AP long back in 2003? Have you enquired how many job opportunities that venture has generated?
6) You mentioned a website in your press release-that of Dubai Internet city .Have you noticed that it says only 5,500 employees are
working there. How then do you think they will bring 33300 jobs?
7) How did you reach the number 33300? Isn't it literally baseless?
8) You say since the incentive for IT firms is given off to these real estate dealers, there is no incentive for IT firms operating there.
How can a government say that? How can you take allowance for one and give that to another? Is this not corruption? Tomorrow you might say I
have taken salary for chief secretary and paid to my maid servant. Does that mean no one, not even the chief secretary can complain?
The above clearly shows that you've gone out of your way to provide DIC with benefits which defies all logic. We know you are a veteran in these dealings. But please do spare us. We cannot stand a party to sell off our land. If this is for us, we don't need this. We need more IT jobs but if you make IT also an industry which consumes so much land ,YOU ARE CONVERTING IT TOO AS ANOTHER INDUSTRY NOT SUITABLE FOR KERALA.

Please do rethink. Find out some other ways of making money. Spare us
Thanking You,
Joseph C Mathew

-------------------------------------------

Mathew Jacob

5/20/2005
07:17:27 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi,

Software Professionals will look for data, so here it is:

I would like to share with you some information and analysis regarding “Smart City “…!!!



We are providing a comparative study of Trivandrum Techno Park, Info Park and Proposed Smart City. It will highlight the neglect towards prospective sectors and losses for the state of Kerala and people because of blind support for DIC.


Investment
------------
Technopark Current Status: 200 Crores by Gok
Technopark Proposed Status:1000 Crores by Infosys, TCS, Us Software, Sasken and 100 crores by Gok

Smartcity/infopark current status: 100 Crores by Gok
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status: 400 Crores by DIC in 2 yrs

Ownership
-------------
Technopark Current Status: GoK and multiple investors
Technopark Proposed Status: GoK and multiple investors

Smartcity/infopark current status: GoK and multiple investors
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status: DIC and multiple investors

Land Requirement
------------------
Technopark Current Status: 242 acres
Technopark Proposed Status: Additional 100 acres

Total 342 acres

Smartcity/infopark current status: 400 acres initi!
al
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status:1000 acres final

Built Up Space
--------------------------------
Technopark Current Status: 15 lakhs sq ft by GoK
Technopark Proposed Status: 40 lakhs sq ft by Gok and Pvt. investors
Smartcity/infopark current status: 3.25 lakhs sq ft
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status: not mentioned

No: of Companies
--------------------
Technopark Current Status: 75
Technopark Proposed Status: --
Smartcity/infopark current status: 25
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status: not mentioned


Jobs
---------------------------------
Technopark Current Status: 7500
Technopark Proposed Status: Additional 20,000 (no investment by Gok) + 2500 in next 3-4 years
Smartcity/infopark current status: 721
Smartcity/infopark Proposed status: Maximum 3000 p.a., 10,000 in next 5 years


Employer: Employee (average)
-------------------------------------------
Technopark Current Status: 1:100
Smartcity/infopark current status: 1:28


Jobs/Acre
--------------------------------
Technopark Current Status: 49
Technopark Proposed Status: 116

Smartcity/infopark Proposed Status :30-35


Revenue for Gok
-----------------------------------
Technopark Current Status: Rent/Lease/ of 15 lakhs sq ft and Land Selling. Recurring in nature.
Technopark Proposed Status:Rent/Lease/ of 20 lakhs sq ft and Land Selling. Recurring in nature. Smartcity/infopark current status: Rent/Lease/ of 3.25 lakhs sq ft and Land Selling. Recurring in nature.

Smartcity/infopark Proposed status:
Only if dividend declared.
Maximum 9% of any profit.


Drawbacks:-
Since inception 4 years ago DIC - Dubai has managed to attract 615 companies and provide employment for 5500 only, which questions against their credibility.
Transfer of 100 acres of land originally acquired for Bhramapuram Thermal plant will curtail future expansion of the plant.
Preference for employment only for local population for specified jobs is against constitution. (News in Malayala Manorama)
Most of the employees will be from outside Kerala and India. (News in Malayala Manorama)
Gok Kerala cannot be a member in Directors Board. As per companies act 1956 an individual should have more than 9% share to represent directors board. The DIC has agreed to pay 136 crores for Info Park and 62 acres of land.

Total Investment 1500 Crores

9 % Share will be 1500 * 9/100 = 135 Crores - - - - Tricky Mathematics

DIC has not mentioned about the sector to create 33,000 jobs. Whether its in IT/ITES, Tourism, Real Estate, direct or indirect jobs.


* The facts and figures used in analysis has been gathered from official sources and news paper

The Keralas largest circulation daily� Malayala Manorama and some other electronic media are behind the much hyped Dubai Smart City�. The Gok of Kerala is giving 100 acres of free land; selling existing infrastructure facilities for Rs 136 crores, Gok will be shortly declaring Info Park as SEZ�. Gok has giving so much incentives and option to develop Kochi and DIC to generate around 3000 jobs in 3 years, 10,000 jobs in 5 years and 18,300 jobs in 10 years respectively in different sectors. If DIC failed to generate this much jobs in phased manner they will be charged a compensation of Rs 6,000 per job. Even if DIC is not generating any jobs the maximum compensation payable to Gok will be Rs 19 crores and 80 lakhs. (33,000 * 6000). Can Gok surrogate 400 acres of land and Info Park facility with this compensation amount?

Can you justify answers for the following questions?

Does Smart City really need 400 acres of land (4 times the size of Vatican City)? The DIC here in Dubai is based on not more than 50 acres of land!
The DIC is not a technology company as it might seem from the outside. The DIC itself is essentially a Real Estate company. Do our politicians understand this?
By giving away excessive land (as freehold) to one party, would it not jeopardize the potential for other future development in that area (i.e. more employment opportunities employing the same resource of land)?
Would the new land owners later use the excess freehold land for other real estate business - like selling apartments and villas?
Are there sufficient controls in place to ensure that the future use of land is strictly for its originally intended purposes?
Aren't there Indian corporations that can do the same real estate development for the technology park, like DIC could do? If Kochi has so hyped potential, Can't the Gok develop and IT Park? Why we need a "Third Party"?
So dont go behind media hype, Ommen Chandy, V. S or MFAR group; just make ourselves an evaluation on facts.
-------------------------------------------
Some other responses to this chain mail

What VS told about Internet City & the Facts?

That the smart city agreement will be reconsidered if LDF comes to power since :

It is the biggest ever land scandal in the history of Kerala.

Land and assets worth Rs 1115 crores is sold out for just 145 crores. The state government is planning to sell the info park building( for which 70 crores was already spend) + 298.67 Acres of land for 145 crores. Do you believe that this is a genuine deal? If so you have to go back to your LKG classes... Presently the state government is getting 5 crores per annum from rent alone.
If Dubai internet city is not able to generate 33000 jobs in10 years the penalty they had to pay is only 20 crores after 10 years!!!!!

Other Responses

A rational thinking man knows very well that DIC is not credible body regarding IT; they are neither a software co or so!
ftware service provider. They are simply a real estate developer.

The DIC at Dubai is also not a big thing; they are employing only 5500 people in more than 300 or 350 cos. So average 15 people per company!! Most of the offices are regional marketing offices or sales offices. Dubai being an entry point for several countries in middle east, Africa etc, some companies have put up their office there. Infact not much software development taking place.

What VS argued is true. How can a company employing only 5500 people give job to 33000 people here? The fallacy is the compensation if they are not able to provide that, that too after 10 years, a meager 19 crores. The infopark building itself costs now 70 crores, not to mention about the acres of land surrounding it.

The argument that DIC is owned by Dubai Govt is not much valid. We may say that the Makthoum family of Dubai has share in the parent holding of DIC, thatz all. Dubai is ruled by the private family, of Sheikh Maktoum. Almost all real estate developments happening there are owned by these rulers or sheikhs. It is not like a democratic govt like ours. These sheikhs own the luxury hotels, Malls etc. Recently Sheikh of Abu Dhabi had bought the world's most luxurious hotel, Burl -Al- Arab from Dubai Sheikh.

Why Govt is not so fast in granting them land. Infoys had been waiitng for about 2 years to get land in TVM. Now they are expected to get it by November. Why the interest shown to DIC is not in the case of these desi companies?. Perhaps the middlemen would not be benefitted in the deal, isn't it?

Best Regards,

Sarat
Technopark,TVM
-------------------------------------------
Thomas

5/20/2005
09:28:56

Message:
Thanks to Joseph Mathew (Technopark Tvm )
And Sarath (Technopark -Tvm)
Thanks for the facts you provided..Great guys..
Kunjunju is trying to eat kerala..
!
You guys gave the right answer with all the facts..

-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:44:32
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
anurajke

5/21/2005
18:23:38 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi Mathew and Sarath,
Unfortunately you have got all the facts wrong. The proposed investment in smart city is $400m and not 400 crores. The employment potential is around 1 lakh+ and not 18,000 out of which 33,000 is the assured jobs. These many jobs could be assured because of the pre given requirements of 20 MNCs already in agreement with smart city officials to set up shop in India. If you take 400 sq.feet/IT job which is international standard, requirement of 1000 acres for 1,00,000+ jobs is correct. The valuation of 1045 crores for land and Infopark is insanely out of the mark. I am a native of ekm dist, and the land prices in and around InfoPark is 35 lakhs/acre. The Brahmapuram area is a marshy land which do not fetch more than 10lakhs/acre. How come Infopark which is setup at 70 crores including land acquire more than 500 crores in valuation in less than 2 years? Dubai is not an IT destination, India is. And if DIC has petro dollars to invest, what is your problem? Definitely they are here to make profit, and they know there is scope in Kerala. They need not do any jugglery to make profit in Indian IT sector which is growing at 35% per year. The returns are guaranteed.

Real estate companies are very much required for IT. You might not have heard of Mahindra city and so many other tech cities coming up in different parts of India. Just to think that Infosys or TCS will make huge investments in Kerala in the near future is risky. Infosys may provide say 1000 jobs in 5 years. What we need is 5 lakh jobs. We need around 125,000 crores investment in Kerala in the next 20 years to give jobs to all Keralites. Each investment that comes into IT sector should be welcomed.

Technopark is definitely a success story in Kerala. It does not mean that there is no scope for other endeavors in the state.

rgds
Anuraj!

-------------------------------------------
Thomas

5/22/2005
00:06:15 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hey Anuraj,
Only one question which needs answer.
If they dont provide upto 33000 jobs .What are we going to get back. (6000 per job they assured?)
And the land goes to them.(Which is crores and crores worth).
Keralites shudnt be such stupid to think that way.When our tribals are dying for land.We need IT park there ?
We need developments to create jobs .But not with this type of developments which eats our land ,and ultimately Oommen and kannalikutty will make money..

Thanks
Thomas
-------------------------------------------
anurajke

5/22/2005
05:06:55 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
That 'if' is the biggest impediment to Kerala's development. The prospect of IT industry in India is so high that 33,000 jobs is not a big issue to be realized. Let me ask you one thing, if smart city do not materialize, do you think the proposed land will be crores worth? The land price in those regions is really low. It is only because of smart city the prices have gone up in recent times.

Also let us not raise tribal issues here. The issue of tribals is the failure of kerala politicians. 100 acres of land is not a solution to that problem. Also do not forget that Tata tea limited holds around 1,20,000 acres in Munnar (that too under permamant lease at 1 rupee/acre per year) and the land prices in Munnar is 3 lakhs/cent - atleast 6 times more than the price in Kakkanadu. What about the land that has been with public sector enterprises in Eloor area which pollutes Cochin and Periyar irreparably? How many jobs have they realized?

IT jobs can really help Kerala economy in the long run. It is not a panacea. But 20,000 engineers coming out of Kerala's institutions every year badly need jobs!

rgds
Anuraj

Tom

5/22/2005
08:30:50 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues
[C!
RLF]Message:
Hi guys,
Iam an NRI working as a Proj Manager in one IT comp USA.
I was going through the comments from all.
First of all let me tell you all onething that development is good.But its better always from the side of govt.
When TECHNOPARK is a big success why goverment wants to privatise the Kochi deal that too with stupid reasons.
Here in USA the companies all knows about TECHNOPARK kerala and they give business to Kerala since its in Govt Sector. I myself gave business to Kerala Technopark from my company here .And i was about to get that Business from here ,Only bcoz i was about to Explain the features of Technopark.And the Main thing here they were intrested is bcoz it WAS IN GOVT SECTOR AND NOT PRIVATISED..Even though here many r privatised.But KERALA GOVT ALREADY PROVED THEY CAN DO IT and now JUST saying that they dont have money to do so they r giving land for free..
Anyway I STRONGLY THINK THAT THE DEVELOPMENT SHUD BE IN GOVT SECTOR AND THE KOCHI TECHNOPARK SHUD BE WITH GOVT...AND NOT PRIVATISED..
-------------------------------------------

Joseph

5/22/2005
08:31:38 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj,

We avoided the ifs in the case of self financing colleges,what happened?

A software professional cannot say ,we can avoid ifs?

What infrastructure is DIC gone provide? As you said companies might come seeing the manpower and facilities in kochi -DIC has nothing to do there

They need power supply uninterrupted -DIC cannot do anything there,state has to provide

They need water,roads,rail,connectivity - DIC cannot do anything there.

Then what are they gone provide - Buildings?

For argument sake I 'll agree Government does not have the money to invest in buildings -then did they call a tender for this? for mutual joint ventures? You tell me what will be the capital or share any private firm will ask just for buildings.....

Don't go behind t!
he slogan -development. Take a close look and you can see through the deal-ITS DAYLIGHT ROBBERY...

Regards,
Joseph
-------------------------------------------
Anuraj K E

5/22/2005
18:16:47 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi Joseph,
I don't know if you were part of the struggle against self financing colleges in Kerala, but I were. As an engg. student in early 90's I have taken part actively in the struggle, so much so that we lost 1 year of our studies due to it! And guess what was the outcome? The very same parties which opposed self financing collges actively started such colleges when they came to power! As for me now, I do still believe govt. has a role in education. But it cannot be the alpha to omega. If we were able to invite the right kind of institutions, we would have been known as an education capital in India. But see what happened, with all the opposition, many mafias came in through the back door. That happens when we don't have clear cut policies. Also the connivance of judiciary, govt officials and vested interests have made matters worse. This is crony capitalism, which is the result of corruption and lack of vision. Years later I sadly reflect that Kerala still do not have a single educational institution of repute - not even nationally - none in govt. nor in private sector.

I still believe that Kerala has the potential of around 50,000 engg. seats/year provided we have the right kind of insititutions and right kind of industry to abosrb them. Govt. cannot spend money on this. It's sparse resources are required for primary education, basic health care and other civic amenities.

We should welcome capital and foreign capital in the right doses to bring about social change. The era of welfare state is gone forever. France and other welfare states in Europe are busy changing their policies to survive. China has adapted to the post globalization realities. Kerala cannot exist as a lone island amidst sweeping changes. Now or lat!
er, the people of this state are going to show their politicians that failed them, their right place - in the waste basket of history!

- Anuraj K E
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/23/2005
07:13:47 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj,

Lets not deviate from the topic. I mentiond Self financing colleges to remind us what will happen if government go by verbal assurance.

Meanwhile VS has come up with 11 specific points where OOmen Chandy has gone against state's interest in this deal.Itsw for Chandy to answer them ...
VS like a trus statesman welcomes all job generating genuine initiatives and wants smart city deal to be re-written keeping state's interest safe guarded...

Now what will his detractors say?
-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:46:01
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
Now, that is called change of tactics from V.S. Do we need to believe people who have sabotaged every attempt to modernise Kerala, killed industry and enterprenourship and made keralites look out for jobs elsewhere?

I don't understand one thing, what is the basis of 1045 crores valuation of the Land and Infopark by V.S? I am sure he won't get any documents to prove it. 4 months ago, Wipro was alloted 25 acres land at InfoPark at 18 lakhs/acre. 2 months later At&T took up 4 acres land at 24 lakhs/acre. Now that itself is 100 crores corruption according to V.S's statstics!
-------------------------------------------
Anuraj K E

5/23/2005
23:42:35 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hey,
You guys who have rallied behind V.S. in the name of Technopark might want to see this report from Hindu, just 5 months back:

******************************************

VS opposes land acquisition moves

By Our Special Correspondent

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM Jan. 3.

The Leader of the Opposition, V. S. Achuthanandan,
has urged the Government to give up the move to
acquire 300 acres of land in Attipra panchayat in
Thiruvananthapuram district for expansion of the
Software Technology Park.


In a statement here today, Mr. Achuthanandan said
there was no need to acquire more land displacing
around 300 families because space running into
lakhs of square feet was yet to be occupied at the
Technopark and the campus had a large area without
any construction. About 4,000 acres of land had
already been acquired for institutions such as the
Kerala University, the ISRO, the FCI, industrial
estate and the Technopark in the panchayat. The
local population was worried that acquisition of
more land would result in environmental imbalances
in the locality, he said.

Mr. Achuthanandan pointed out that large tracts of
paddy fields had been converted into construction
sites on account of the various development
ativities taken up in the locality. With
conversion of paddy fields, the area was
experiencing serious drinking water shortage.
There was also the problem of flooding
during the rainy season. There was, therefore, no
justification of more land from the locality, he
added.

The Leader of the Opposition also expressed the
suspicion that the land acquisition move was
intended to help certain vested interests under
the guise of developing the IT sector. The move
appeared to be to acquire land at a low price and
pass it on to private groups realising hefty
commissions, Mr. Achuthanandan said.

© Copyright 2000 - 2005 The Hindu

-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/24/2005
07:31:33 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj,

Its here that I ask you to look into the facts.

1)GoK didn't sell land to Wipro.It was only given as lease. That plot cannot be sold by Wipro or other firms. But this is an outright sale.

2) Can you help me buy an acre of land at Rs 20000/cent in Kakkanad? Any town in Kerala for that matter?

3) Attipra is one Panchayat which is totally displaced . Here the goverent has acquired land even earlier in the name of IT and has given it for tourism department.Then again they come to acquire land. This is one ideal example of 'development'. Earlier it was projected as if Attipra and locality is gaining because of technopark. Now the local people in its totalityare being pushed out. Iam working in Technopark and we are being considered as invaders by local people.
But after VS intervened the local people atleast got money for what they lost.

-------------------------------------------
Thomas

5/24/2005
17:34:35 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj..
Please try to understand the facts,
VS always!
gives comments with proofs..Not like Antony or OOmmen.They always try to escape from the facts.
And as Joseph asked will we get some land in kakkanad for 20000/sent..?
THIS IS ALL DRAMA BY OOMMEN >>HE MADE ROYAL MONEY OUT OF IT..
LET HIM ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS BY VS..
-------------------------------------------
Anuraj K E

5/24/2005
18:19:27 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi,
Please check the land deeds in kakkanadu and nearby villages in the last 6 months and tell me if any land has gone beyond 50k/cent. The price varies in Kakkanadu. Near collectorate, which is the costliest, land is going around 1,00,000/cent. You will definitely find land for 20,000 in Brahmapuram and between 30,000-50,000 in kakkanadu near the proposed site.By the way, the proposed area is not a town, but a sparsely populated village like place with large tracts of unused land.Govt. cannot fix price arbitrarily, it is based on records. And the price fixed in this case is 28,000/cent which is the fair price. Govt. cannot fix price more than that without a special order.
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/25/2005
06:08:44 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj,

Did you have a chance to check those land deals?

And what about infopark,which is already developed? Is it also only worth 20,000/cent?


-------------------------------------------
Anuraj K E

5/25/2005
17:43:58 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi Joseph,
I am a native and I own traditional land there. I know the prices going around. The developed Infopark (costed 70 crores including land) is valued at 109crores - almost 35% higher. Isn't that enough???

rgds
Anuraj
-------------------------------------------
Santhosh Prabhu

5/25/2005
18:39:55 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hello All, This is in responce to the "IF" that Mr. Thomas had raised in his previous message.

I just wanted!
to request you not to move or go out any where from where you are sitting now. What if a coconut falls on your head ?

We must aslo shut down the Trivandrum Infosys. What if Mr Nrayanamurthy goes mad tommorow and shoot all the malayali employees in Trivandrum ??

I am sorry if i am harsh but i wanted to drive this point.

You are asking this probably because you are not aware of the IT employment scene. I am not blaming you, if the people who run the state dont have a clue about what is happening beyond their party circles then you have all the right to ask this.

Actually you have spoken like a true malayali.
This explains why malayalis are not as enterprising as people of other states. This also explains why we dont allow other enterprising people to set up thier shops here so that atleast we can work there.

Mr Anuraj kerala is a place where you need to beg for things that comes as default in other places. Even if this smart city materializes what is the guarentee that these people will not raise their voice against the next set of companies that will think of investing in kerala ?
you will have to stage another revolt then. do u think things will work like this ? A state wide revolt for and against each time a company thinks of investing in kerala.

Frankly we dont deserve IT.

Santhosh Prabhu
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/26/2005
19:00:29 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Anuraj,

Infopark -for 70 crores!!!!

4 lakh square feet built @ Rs. 1600/sq.ft. You can enquire this.

And whats the price of land? Iam also from the neighbourhood. All malayalees know the price there.

Whats the price for having 26 companies -all IT firms in?

Or will you say jobs have a value only if it comes through DIC?

And wheres Rs 109 crores? Its gone as 9%...

======
Santhosh Prabhu, You are!
the one who does not know about IT scenario? How in the world can you compare Infosys and DIC.Infosys have many clients whose IT work they are doing. How many does DIC have?

The incentive given to DIC is like dowry being given to the broker.

Tell me I am also thnking like a true Malayalee- that will make me proud.

-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:47:47
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
John Geevarghese

5/27/2005
05:47:08 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi


I just want to ask a question to Joseph C Mathew regarding his statement.
---------------------------------------
How did you come to this figure of 33300 jobs? How was this projection
made? Any project management basics will tell you that the number of
resources depends on the work in hand and duration. Have you estimated
the work?
-------------------------------------------------------

Today How can people claim that several thousands or laks of people working in Bangalore ?
is it based on the number of projects
counted few years back and number of skilled labor counted years back ..

Your statement is correct for a project execution/planning within an organization

Here smartcity project is for a nation ..
and authority is trying to develop an industry base there by attracting Lead companies/labs/organizations ..
and also organizing a business environment for them(by trying to pull many strings industry,
people ..academics etc )

To give a simple maths(Based on samples)
if there are 10 companies(of different sizes) in Blore employing 10000 people, and if we can get
similar(or same) companies in COCHIN we can also get 10000 employement oppertunitis in COCHIN.
Apply some correction (50%) still we get 5000
employement oppertunity.

Today why Bangalore and Hydrabad are so hot for IT companies ..some forefathers were fools to
sweat for the current generation years back ..
Today's Bangalore didnt happen overnight ...
Please dont discourage the current leaders who
are attempting to bring a new industry to kerala

I also agree LAND deal may cause some doubts ..
But we need to sort out that doubts rather than
totally discouraging the initiative current leader are d!
oing ...

Think about the knowledge base and information
facility these companies can bring to Kerala and
our own people get an oppertunity to learn and
improve in life ..

If we attempt to CANCEL SMART CITY PROJECT
definitely they (DIC) will go somewhere else and
do business ..they are business people
they know how to make money ..
But what about the oppertunity we lost
Again Kerala people need to go to Bangalore
or Hydrabad to beg for a Job.

Here my point is, we need to understand our
capabilies and trade with that ..to get a better life for our people.

Thanks
John Geevarghese
-------------------------------------------
Santhosh Prabhu

5/27/2005
11:13:26 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Mr John Geeverghese ... perfectly .. right .. u said it .. one cant be more clear on this ...

Santhosh Prabhu
-------------------------------------------
Tom

5/27/2005
17:45:36

Message:
Mr Varhghese..
Here no one will loose opportunity.
Hows did technopark come up ?It came by the effort from Kerla Govt .and not from outsiders.
Why cant we build our own infrastructure in cochin ..Instead of giving our land to some Real estate people.. The answer from govt is no money?
Let them do the same approach as they did for Nedumbasseri airport.
Then everyone will be a part of it.
This is ULTIMATELY STUPID REASONING FROM CM..
AND Hes giving the INFOPARK ALSO for FREE..WHYY WHYY??
Dear readers..Please take all these things and use our common sense to decide whos wrong and whos right?
Any way one thing i understood is that CM is playing in this.Otherwise why is hiding the details
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/27/2005
17:46:28 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John Geevarghese,
You said "
Smart city is for the nation .... and DIC is here for business !
..."

SO for which nation? Dubai?

Bangalore, Hyderabad or any other Indian state grew not because they had Smart cities or any parks.

They had all the parameters needed for IT growth.Now what are the parameters? Those are laid down by NASSCOM. Kochi already have all these.Other cities have reached a saturation point. Here you put this as if these parameters will improve only if SMART city comes. Its not true. They are business people as you said and are here because the parameters are already high.

DOnt substitute smart city for IT companies. They dont have any job in hand.The government should be the facilitator atleast- its job should not be facilitating the facilitator.
-------------------------------------------
Tom

5/27/2005
17:46:44

Message:
Mr Varhghese..
Here no one will loose opportunity.
Hows did technopark come up ?It came by the effort from Kerla Govt .and not from outsiders.
Why cant we build our own infrastructure in cochin ..Instead of giving our land to some Real estate people.. The answer from govt is no money?
Let them do the same approach as they did for Nedumbasseri airport.
Then everyone will be a part of it.
This is ULTIMATELY STUPID REASONING FROM CM..
AND Hes giving the INFOPARK ALSO for FREE..WHYY WHYY??
Dear readers..Please take all these things and use our common sense to decide whos wrong and whos right?
Any way one thing i understood is that CM is playing in this.Otherwise why is hiding the details
-------------------------------------------
John Geevarghese

5/29/2005
11:36:26 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
It was very nice to read the responses to my previous mail from Joseph and Tom
See my comments about your arguments below:
Pls dont drag this debate into an immature "words" exchange

NASSOCAM PARAMETERS and rating
======================================

Regarding !
the point Joseph mentioned about NASSCOM rating based on
NASSCOM parameter for COCHIN, COCHIN rating is really high ..isnt it ?
I too believe

Let me ask you, why still we are not seeing good number of
IT employement opportunity in COCHIN..or
is the supply of Job opportunity is meeting our Need ?
other than DIC business people few more are coming to COCHING
as comapred to what is going to Bangalore or Pune or Hydrabad.
Lets try to understand what does these NASSCOM parameters means
These are parameters stipulating how good a place to set up
IT industry

But these parameters are not good to evaluate a business success
BUSINESS PARAMETERS ARE DIFFERENT FROM NASSCOM PARAMETERS
each business has different parameters too.
Let me give you an example ..if a new company has to set up in cochin
or a new unit of an existing company has to setup
usually they try to understand what is the domain/section of business can
go to COCHIN

LET me say in simple example ..if a new company(Say X) wants to start
a development center in INDIA and this center is to develo SW
in LINUX KERNAL project ..There are a few business parameters determines
what city they want to start business, for example ..
if the company needs 10 emplyess who are experts in LINUX kernal and
Bangalore has 1000 experts and cochin has 100 experts ..
still the company perfer Bangalore (comparing this parameter) because
they feel in bangalore they get expert employees more easily and cheaply ..
so that They can manage attrition more effectively. the BIGGEST
PROBLEM IN IT INDUSTRY IN INDIA or another main BUSINESS PARAMTER IS
"ATTRITION". Because no company wants people dependant project model rather
they want a model where projects gets delivered as planned even if there is
attrition. NASSOCAM says "let companies take people and train them"
but this is not practicle in b!
usiness world because they want to release
the product or project in time without affecting schedules ...
Companies want to recruit right person immediately and expect him to
deliver immediately.

Similarly other business parameters such as
1) Sub contractor management
2) Vendor management
3) HR subcontracting
4) Easy access to better and competative academic centers/
5) Employee housing facility
6) Telecommuting facility for employees
7) Utility bills (such as water/electricity) Hotels etc ..
8) Employee recreation/wellfare facility such as parks/training centers
Hotels/Camping grounds etc
9) Good schools for employee's children
10) Less racisim towards outsides (This lacks a lot in kerala
Kerala people can't tolerate outsiders here in KERALA
but they can go anywhere on earth. We want locals to be preferred
in employement but companies always want the best in the industry as
employess)
11) Better social environment (more working days and less "BANDS & STRIKES")

In These parameters list some of them may be there in NASSCOM list.

How to solve these issues are by attracting a knowledge base/companies/business
in COCHIN by sacrificing an initial investment.
This is what Chandrababu naidu did years back for Andraha Pradesh/or HydBad


REGARDING THE LAND DEAL
=============================================================
On FRIDAY (my friday in San Francisco) I read a very good article in MALAYALA MANORAMA
which talks about the deals of the land with DIC

it was clearly written
a) 100 acers of land gave to DIC free and its as part of the
state IT act/rule made in a constitutional manner

b) the remaining land was given for an amount which authority
proved reasonable based on evidence(read the article)

c) NOW LEFT PARTY CLAIM LAND PRICE IS HIGH BECAUSE OF THE RECENT
LAND DEALS : I FEEL T!
HIS IS NOT A REASONABLE ARGUMENT
the reasons are
i) land price went up in Kakkanadu is because the deal with DIC got signed
(after the deal got signed land price went up)
ii) what can the Govt do when there are people to sell for Higher price and
some others to buy that land, based on some assumptions
ii) those business gang made(or making) money out of this real estate deals
others those who are jealous of this to those business people
now making noise that Gove is responsible for businessman making money.
I feel this argument is not valid at all

I heard a big business group bought 10 acres land in Kakkanadu ..
they might have done it ..why to say Ommenchandy is corrupt and help them
when HE IS NOT EVEN AWARE OF THIS ...
But the business group might have done it because of their business smartness
and money power ...To prevent this business group SHOULD WE CANCEL THE SMARTCITY
project.

d) when DIC make a smart city from this kakkanadu barren land deal we get a
big developed area in KAKKANADU from foreign investment ...

so I suggest even though we loose little land for LESS PRICE we develop a
more attractive business environment in KERALA


WHY CANT WE BUILD SMART CITY OUR OWN simulate the Technopark model
=========================================================================

Let me state my answer with an example
if Govt has only 1000 crores of money in their hand and they need 2000 crores to
build smartcity there own

a) they have to borrow money
b) they have to execute the project themself and in kerala it will be
really corruption mixed
c) this project will never end or drags too long
d) what about other important projects Govt needs to do such as roads/sanitation
people wellfare


if DIC develop smartcity from there own money and we give them some land for less money
we can use this 1000 cro!
res Govt has(or whatever Govt has) for other projects
such as better roads for Kerala/Better schools for kerala or other wellsfare projects
so what we loos out of this LAND deal (if at all if loose as as CPM leaders claim)
TOM's question: What opportunity are we missing?
==============================================================

1) Opportunity to develop our state at par with IT hubs such as Bangalore/Bombay
so that Malayaless can work in Kerala itself

2) Malayaless college's/schools get the latest Industry updates from their
own local industry for cheap price (Better schools)

3) More investment money into our own state. This increase revenue for the GOVT.

4) many more I can explain ..Honestly if you visit outside kerala to someother
countries you can answer yourself, we are years behind many others why
we lost many opportunity to build a better KERALA. why we still nag on
silly things and deprive our young generations future.

My honest comment about the current "isms" in Kerala is that
the age old communism or congress culture needs a reform
the "working class" needs to chang their outlook to a new class
"Productive class" they produce something.
People needs to produce something ..even in Govt office how much productivity
we see their. The model has to change to - people gets rewarded based on what they
produce.(reward= money or social status or any parameter of interest)
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

5/30/2005
06:40:09 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,

Your arguments looks more composed.But we've discussed all these .Though I have reservations about some of your parameters needed for industry-eg:-which firm will say I'll work with only Linux projects, only Java? ,IT firms take up all projects irrespective of platforms- for this argument ,I tend to !
agree with you. BUT how is Smart city going to boost any of this parameters?
---------------
Land deal - you said it should not be mere argument sake arguments. Now you break this. Will any one beleive that you'll get land just 10 kms away from Kochi heartland @ 20000/cent? Developed peice of land in Infopark also @ 20000!!! If anyone says we'll get,I need an acre.I stand by this-please direct me to that of land.I'll surely buy atleast an acre.
----------------
DIC can just construct buildings. If govt feels they don't have money for that,let them issue a tender and take the best out of it.Let DIC bid too.

Even our CM in his latest letter didnt qoute Manorama -because he knows how credibile it might appear- Instead he qouted India today to justify the deal. That qouted text itself says "Though some part of the land will cost a lakh or more....
" .But some of our friends in this forum are more adament than CM himself and says land price is only 20000!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------
Paul

5/31/2005
04:58:37 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
I have created a web-site to vote on smart city.
Unlike other related petitions that are floating around, this web site will let you choose different opinions.

The idea is that each of us is able to influence our near-and-dear and is able to swing votes in the upcoming election. If we can provide a forum for politicians to show the vote-swing realtime, we would be able to swing them for the commom-good.

You can see the web-portal at
http://www.voteforsmartcity.com
-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:53:22
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
Tom

6/04/2005
04:34:53 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,
I was going through ur letter.
Before saying about all tthe above.Have you ever been to technopark Kerala to avail the facility there.You know its not hard to setup a company there in technopark .You need only 3 weeks to register and start off. Also regarding the issues to be solved ..
"4) Local rules/Govt law
(if a water pipe to company is broken
they dont want an employee to stand in
Water authority Queues in Kerala Govt Office)
5) Electricity problems/Labor unions etc "
You report a problem about technopark to the Parkcentre (Admin service).It'll be solved within no time. I have the experience iam still using their facilities.Its a GREAT place. Everthing is there inside. I never had any trouble with ELECTRICITY or CONNECTIVITY.
GO OVER THERE OR ASK UR FRIENDS WHO WORK THERE.
ITS really a great place..
WE dont need DIC to do this. It shud be owned by our govt or Keralites
-------------------------------------------
Riva T philip

6/04/2005
08:28:14 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
During 1980s CPi (M) and LDF together with BJP launched agitation against Computers, Computerization of Governemnt Offices and Railways, and also IT.

Now these forces again joint ogether and start thei agitation against Smart City.

Every right-thinking Malayalis should defeat this hidden agenda of CPI (M) - LDF - Naxal - BJP - KDP (Karunakaran Muralidharan Padmaja Party) grand alliance against Development and Congress.

Congress and UDF is th eonly development -oriented party in Kerala. What all development Kerala achieved, it is because of erstwhile Royal families and subsequent Congress governments. Communists having nothing to do with Kerala's government.

So defeat LDF in the enxt election.

Regards,

Rivaji
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/04/2005
08:41:20 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,

Before listing down things 1,2,3.. Please crosscheck the facts. None of the reasons you listed are in anyway true.Red tapism is not at all there for IT industries and its a 'single window' clearance...

Now you take a realistic stand on land price. If you dont have how come you took a stand all along that land price of 20000/cent is realistic?

You still didnt answer my question - What do you think DIC can bring to Kerala,which other parameter which Kerala at present does not have, other than buildings?

AND WHY IS THE CM SHYING AWAY FROM AN ALL PARTY CONFERENCE WHICH HE HIMSELF PROPOSED? ISN'T SIGNING AN AGREEMENT WHEN THIS IS DUE CRIMINAL?
-------------------------------------------

Joseph

6/04/2005
11:04:33 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Riva,

Till I saw you yourself calling you 'Rivaji' ,I thought you had nothing to do with congress .Now I know I was wrong. Have you ever thought why you are kicked out from forum after forum... You seems to be an Unnithan fan -still you didnt hear his comments? Raising baseless arguments....

Everyone,

Check this link

http://mathrubhumi.com/mathru/archive/date-2/html/lekhan.htm

And from now on,when you abuse Achummamen,specify which achummammen ....

-------------------------------------------
John

6/06/2005
12:31:15 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Joseph,
Your statement
=========================================
Before listing down things 1,2,3.. Please crosscheck the facts. None of the reasons you listed are in anyway true
===========================================
On what basis you state this my dear friend
Let me give you some real data/points supporting my claims

Do you know MNC..Motorola India :
They had a staffing org called GSO
How many people in !
that org are real MOTOROLA
employees ..similarly HP,CISCO, many others
ONE MNC HR team (not employees) in India
is doing their HR US Jobs ....That means
if there is a request to HR team by an
employee in US for some HRwork ..
that gets done by HR consultants in INDIA ....
this is not IT work.

These all companies are giving secondry Jobs(HR/FACILITY etc)
to its own supporting service companies in INDIA
and those companies are causing a supporting
INDUSTRY to develop in parallel to IT industry in
BANGALORE ...Not surprisingly Those industries are evolving a lot (A LOT MEANS EVEN MORE THAN YOU GUESS).
NOW YOU SAY "ITS NOT TRUE" on what basis you claim this ?
Is it a good idea to get Jobs in COCHIN
with latest developed business models too ...

2) LAND DEAL
=============
I have enough proof that land in Kakkanadu
(ie within 1 km from propose project) was
costing less than 20000 in 2002 time frame
In 2004 aug we were(or a group of people whom I know) planning to buy the same land
for 40000/- which didnot materialize ..
which we people regret now :-)
Do you want more evidence ?
such as where am I from ..who all are those people
Could you pls avoid speaking statemetns like
"Kakkanadu is 15 KM away from cochin
so land price is too high" ..

I want more local people to speak thats why I asked that questions. Not just u and me alone

3) WHAT DIC can do ?
you want a particular answer for this questions..
So you keep on asking this question.
You are speaking for DIC more than what DIC
speak ..:-)
others can only teach, its you to learn..
We need a lot of investment in Kerala
that you realize only when u travel outside.
Govt cant do everything,
if they do invest in High tech alone
more important projects (such as drinking
water, roads sanitation gets affected)
thats why !
we need external investment.

How many people die in Kerala bcos of road accidents ..why cant we solve this issue ?
why Govt should go for IT techno parks by
neglecting these people who die on the roads.
Govt should invest in education, infrastructure
not in business and profit making that also
after neglecting the important projects

No comments from my side about your POLITICAL STATEMENTS about CM: I am not into politics
But be open and learn whenever you have an opportunity. Listern to what others speaks also
This is the main fault of malayalees
even mine when I was in Kerala ....
What people do in US or UK or DUBAI..
even malayaless can do it in KERALA
provided all negative people give
them an opportunity we dont lack any abilities ..
We can develop knowledge and skill provided
given an opportunity.

I think I sign off from this discussion now
uncless you have some real points not just (invalid) statemetns and your favorite
question.. what DIC can do ?

John

-------------------------------------------

Prince Thomas

6/06/2005
13:44:21 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Dear friends,

Hope you all have heard CPM Leader V.S.ACHUTANANTHAN'S remarks about SmartCity, upcoming in Kochi. He wants all the people behind this project in Jail.

This kind of politicians will ruin our State. They have no vision for future. It's all cheap political games for their gain. If the project comes up our Kochi will be the most happening place in India .


At the least 20,000 people will get a job out there. All major IT firms, like Microsoft, IBM, CISCO will have their offices in the proposed project.


But unfortunately that thorn in the ass dislikes progress. He wants all
Keralites to be remained in bullock cart period. Then only he will get
supporters.


Dear friends, you know something about that!
great leader.


He has a son called Arun Kumar. He did his MCA from TKM College of Engineering; Kollam.He was one of the worst students in his class. After completion of his course he was made as the Managing Director of Coir Corporation, Kerala.You may be wondering what relation Computers have with Coir.But at that time CPM was ruling kerala. So they are both related.
After that he went to DUBAI as an IT Consultant.


So what now V.S needs is, to make his son as the IT Director of Smart City , when the next government comes into power. But Smart City authorities have out rightly declined that he will never become the Director.So our leader wants to scrap the entire project.



Its normal that parents loves their wards. But why should them sacrifice a nations interest for their gains. Another thorn is KARUNAKARAN.He has made crores of Rupees by looting our state. His son Murali has more than 1000 acres of land in Kerala and has stakes in almost all buildings in Calicut .
Next comes PINARAYI VIJAYAN.His daughter did her education from one of the leading institution in Tamilnadu, which takes heavy capitation from Students. (Owned by Mata Amrtandamayi). You should know that this same Pinarayi does not want Private education institutions in Kerala, because they take capitation from students. But he can send his daughter to other states and can provide good education to his child.


Dear friends, these politicians are making all of us big fools. They all want their pockets to be filled; their children should get good education and jobs, but least bothered about the common man of our state. God gave our state everything, but he did not give us some one to guide us properly.


Its time to revolt against these kind of dirty politicians. Do it now before its too late. Let us give our children a beautiful place to live, which we all dream.'Pen is mightier than Sword'. So forward this mail to all Mallus you know. Let us start a new revolution.

Our motto is "KICK ALL THESE LEADERS OUT OF KERALA".

-------------------------------------------
Jeevan

6/07/2005
10:34:55 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hey guys,
CPM has announced its official stance which is they are not against smart city. So hell with Achu & Co. Kerala moves ahead!!!
http://www.mangalam.com/cgi-bin/newsviewframe.cgi?adcount=4&category=mainnews&co de=201366
-------------------------------------------
Sam T

6/07/2005
12:27:05 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
It is clear from the trail that Mr.Joseph's arguements hold no value. He fails to prove any of them. He says he is an IT professional, but do not seem that he has much experience. All he knows of is infosys, which many in Bangalore consider a low rung IT firm - Infact the joke is that if you go near Infosys, you will be recruited!
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/07/2005
15:57:00 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
SamT, John,
Toall,
You guys are comparing DIC like a consulatancy to provide land to companies.Its an utter waste..WE DONT NEED DIC TO EAT OUR LAND. LETS STOP THIS DISCUSSIONS NOW. YOU GUYS BELEIVE IN the WAste OOMMEN.And die with your principles .YOU ALL WONT UNDERSTAND ABOUT KERALA.
Blaming VS??... YOU wont get such a great leader in kerala. KERALAS GREAT LEADER..KERALAS FUTURE IS THROUGH HIM..
-------------------------------------------
Rajeev

6/07/2005
17:12:07 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
It is heard that the government and infopark officials didnt even discuss with the copmany officials operating currently in the park about the details of selling the infopark to DIC, is it the right way to do it? The companies has signed lease deeds and contratcs with the Infopark officials and it is heard that no company in infopark even knows how thier future will look if sold to DIC.

This is just an example of the way things are!
done, I think nobody will be against even mr.Achutanandan for development, I think its the way things are done, ours is a democratic country where each and every citizen has the right to know about his/her future. I think the issue should have been discussed more openly, think the government has falied to convince the citizens about the benifits that this project would bring to them as individuls and if they can do it, great.
Good Luck to all.

I have been into IT for the last 8 years, in india and abraod, kindly let me know your comments on rajeevkg@hotmail.com

-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/07/2005
22:05:41 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Great Rajeev..
See atleast some are thinking wise..
Here no one is against Development..But make the deals open ..WHY IS OMMEN HIDING?? Nothing but Ate money..
Good Comments Rajeev..
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/07/2005
22:06:04 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Great Rajeev..
See atleast some are thinking wise..
Here no one is against Development..But make the deals open ..WHY IS OMMEN HIDING?? Nothing but Ate money..
Good Comments Rajeev..
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/08/2005
16:25:42 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,

Iam not asking you who was offered land for 40000 in 2004. Nor am I saying I was asked 6 lakhs. But will you say the land which cost 20000 in 2002,which became 40000 in 2004 is 20000 in 2006?

15 kms away was not my statement -our CM said that in his press release.


Ok... Let local people qoute the price, I'll wait till then to buy.

Sam, its news that infosys recruits people 'who just walk by'.
-------------------------------------------
rajeev

6/09/2005
10:11:25 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
The local price for the land is as follows,

The airport - Seaport Highway - Kakk!
and 250K - 300K.

The land adjacent to the road leading to Infopark from Kakknad - 200K-250K.

All other areas in and around Infopark - 100k - 140K.

I would like to buy some land if offered for 30K to 50K as indicated in some mails. This is a challenge

This statement is not against anybody or anyone this is the truth!!!!

later,

Rajeev.
-------------------------------------------

Roy P

6/09/2005
18:32:26 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
It is not even 6 months since I bought land 2 km west of the proposed site at 35000/cent. Where is this 300K like figures coming in from???

Also see this real estate site and check how many plots are available at or below 50000/cent.
http://www.murickens.com/Real%20Estate%20-%20Search%20Result.asp
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/09/2005
18:48:56 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Roy,

Can you give me the location? I would like to buy some too.Not just Rajeev.

Even if the price is 35000/cent, its almost double the price....our CM says its just 20000
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/09/2005
20:18:32 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Get me the details ROY.

I'll buy for that price which you told.
And i dont need any loans .Direct cash..Get me the details.
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/09/2005
20:19:09 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Get me the details ROY.

I'll buy for that price which you told.
And i dont need any loans .Direct cash..Get me the details. Not a challenge but a request..
-------------------------------------------
John

6/09/2005
23:36:38 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Rajeev

I am one of those who wrote 30,000-50000 numbers per cent
Let me give you my justification why I wrote those numbers :
I agree with you..
land price is really high no!
w.
Currently the price has gone up ...
that is becuase of the recent develoments
Govt initiated(Smartcity, Container Terminal etc) ..real estate price has gone up bcos of these
factors, Whom to blame for this ?

(One of the main reason for recent global
inflation is recent oil price hike ..)

Smartcity land deal was signed based on a past land price. My personal comment is that this is a very reasonable thing for the business. Personally I know, that is a remote area from cochin, price was low during 2002-2003 time frame. Now the prices are up bcos people are speculating & buying ..mainly based on smartcity project ..

Now since the land price is up
should we be going against smartcity project?
My dear friends honestly I am try to explain here
IT is the best industry we can nurture in Kerala..
No air pollution, large Job opportunity,
there is no need of a large land requirement etc
lets advocate for it ..whether that is implemented
by Congress or CPM I dont care ..

John
-------------------------------------------
John

6/09/2005
23:53:26 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Roy

I dont deny your statement as well may be
some cases are there like that even today,
I dont know.
2004 August(9-10 months back)
some land close to smartcity was available
for 40,000/cent- now the asking price is
1.5 laks per cent still sellers dont want to
commit this transaction ....Only difference
is that in August 2004 smartcity was just a talk.
John
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/10/2005
02:00:29 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,
No one is saying that smart city shouldnt come.
Everyone wants smart city to be there .But not with the current deals.
Everything is hidden by the govt now.They r not giving proper answers.
If nothing works out and no jobs whom does the land belong to.?
and!
what we get is 33000* 6000.. HA HA ..
WILL ANYONE ACCEPTS THIS KIND OF OFFER?
CM will bcoz he got what he needed..
-------------------------------------------
Riva T philip

6/10/2005
09:06:03 Why CPI(M) is Opposing Smart City?

Message:
Why CPI(M) is Opposing Smart City?

Any Valid Reasons?

Or just their fourth-rate degraded petty politics?

Do you think Communists are anti-Development?

Do you think the English of Malayali Intellectuals and Communists are poor?

Do you think intelelctuals like Sukumar Azhikode, ONV Kurup, MN Vijayan, Sara Joseph, etc can speak English?

Regards,

Rivaji

-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:53:10
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
Well Wisher KERALA

5/31/2005
19:24:56 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
VISIT THE WEBSITE OF VS ACHUTHANADHAN AT
WWW.COMRADEVS.COM
-------------------------------------------
John

5/31/2005
19:56:20 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Please dont use this forum as an advertisement
media to advertise web pages ..
Lets talk about smartcity here.

John
-------------------------------------------
V S Achuthandan

6/02/2005
14:19:29 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:

Read this article:

http://www.yoursmartcity.com/qa/ViewQuestion.aspx?QuestionId=2
-------------------------------------------
Sinu Thomas

6/02/2005
14:27:13 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hello Friends,

Today I heard the news that the SmartCity Project is withdrawn becuase of the strong opposition. Is that true or a rumour? This will be a big Set back for Kerala and India.

What to say, a Centipede if given good bed would still prefer the garbage-can. Its in its nature. I feel ashamed if the news I heard is true.

Lets improve our attitude to foreign investors.
-------------------------------------------

John

6/03/2005
05:52:17 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Joseph,

1) Your argument about Land deal is Invalid
Because you say the price is really high now
that is because of the speculation from people
after they heard the smartcity project.
not just DIC no company will be ready to
acquire land based on the hyped price
due to the new project ..Lets try to know the price before Smartcity project was out to public:

2) Your statement/ questions related to
-----------------------------------------
IT firms take up all projects irrespective of platforms- for this argument ,I tend to agree with you. BUT how is Smart city goi!
ng to boost any of this parameters?
--------------------------------------------
This is partially incorrect statement
bcos all IT vendors/(or any industry) are
specialized in one area initially then they diversify: take eg:
1) wipro : telecom,
2) Infosys: Enterprise/IT
3) Future soft: network protocols

3) How smartcity can help here?
What is smartcity business..they develop
a business model by which they attract IT
companies to they developed area ..
-Its a blessing to Locals to develop
knowledge base all those I discussed earlier mail.
-Its a blessings to local academic/research labs too
-Its a blessing to local people..more Job opportunity
-Its an opportunity to develop a local industry
at par with Global standard

4) Your statement :
================================================
DIC can just construct buildings. If govt feels they don't have money for that,let them issue a tender and take the best out of it.Let DIC bid too.
================================================
When BMW came to kerala was this option possible ?
No, BMW itself is a company ..
Nobody can make what BMW is making
similarly DIC ..others cant be DIC ..
the product
will not be smart city ...
thats why what we have in TVM called
Techno park
Thx
John
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/03/2005
13:30:38 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
John,

1) I didnt say land price in Kochi is NOW high.I said land price in Kochi was always high and it was never anywhere near 20,000 in the near future.
2)Your statement on IT firms are baseless.IT firms look for IT job .Its true some gets a domain and looks for more industries in the same domain - because they can showcase thier expertise.

But your statements saying Smart city can help -reread that.Its as if smart city = gravitational force. You !
tell me why companies will be attracted rather than just citing your opinion as a rule.

3)Its too much of BMW everywhere.
Why do you compare BMW with DIC?
Your statement "Nobody can make what BMW is making ..similarly DIC " Can you tell me what product does DIC have? I ask you how much rice ,you say peas are rotten not even 'angazhy'.

Thats not your fault,everyone who is out to defend smart city were doing the same till now.CM being the best.
-------------------------------------------
Riva T philip

6/03/2005
13:38:01 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
I am a proud anti-Communist and pro-Congress Malayali. I hate Communists, Atheists, Trade Unionists, Bureaucrats, and Homouals.

I am an educated IT professional unlike Malayali Communists, who are barbarians, uncultured, uneducated, senseless, lazy, and s.

The reason behind other peoples hates Malayalis (they hates only Leftist Malayalis, not progressive Rightwingers) because of our Communism, Socialism, Trade Unionism, Bureuacracy, and so-called foolish Intelelctualism and Environmentalism.

It is the high time to shed all these foolishness.

Let us work for the development of Kerala.

It is necessary to ban Strikes, Dharnas, Gheraos, Bandhs, Hartals, Political Rallys etc from kerala in general, and public space (Airport, Port, Railway Station, Highways, etc) in particular. These are shameless customs. In Scandinavian countries there are no strieks or bandhs.

It is necessary to ban Communist Parties and Trade unions from Kerala.

There is also a need to slash the salaries of our Government Employees by 15-20%. They are not doing any work, but involving in corruption, redtape, and harassing poor peoples.

Anyway, I am a Non-Residential Mallu from Kerala, who hates Trade unionism and Communism. I hates all so-called intellectuals in Kerala like Sukumar Azhikode, VR Krishna Aiyer, ONV Kurup, Iqbal, etc. They are bane for our state. We need intelligent peoples, not intellectuals. It is a fact that these intellectuals are encouraging and supporting rapists (see Dhananjoy case: Mahashwetha Devi, Aparna Sen, etc supported Rapist Dhananjoy and they even demanded Right for ). These shameless peoples are also opposing Death Penalty. Most of the intelelctuals are from West Bengal and Kerala. That is why these states are enslaved by foolish ideology of Communism and still remain undeveloped.

Regards,

Rivaji
-------------------------------------------
santhosh prabhu

6/03/2005
19:41:34 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi All, can anybody tell the current status of smart city ? is it gone ?
-------------------------------------------
John

6/04/2005
03:24:51 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Joseph

Before I explain what DIC can do
let me explain what is the meaning of
"OTHER IT CITIES IN INDIA HAVE REACHED SATURATION"

To state as an example, In silicon valley new technology company gets started with VC funding.
When they start business they try to pick the
best business practice available on the world.
For e.g. they choose India as the sw development
center bcos it is cheap.
But They have no idea how to set up companies there and "how to make an organization produce what they want their organization to produce ".
This is the case with even big companies :

They dont know
1) Where to go "in India"
2) What is the best place to start business in Inda
3) Technology availability(for eg: DSL available locally for telecommuting or not)
4) Local rules/Govt law
(if a water pipe to company is broken
they dont want an employee to stand in
Water authority Queues in Kerala Govt Office)
5) Electricity problems/Labor unions etc

6) there are so many parameters here

It is the after effect of!
IT outsourcing this
new trend started. Companies dont want to invesnt
in time and money to solve local place related issues, but they want external service providers
to sell this as service to them.

for e.g: Companies dont want to invest in :
1) Construct/maintain a building of their own
2) TO decide about what Technology to use in the
buidling. Everyone wants the latest/cheapest
for eg: 3 yeras back T1/E1 links were
the common Metro access link ..
now its Ethernet and
Future is Wimax ..
3) Local people development and training
4) HR related activities its purely related to
local people
5) Do you know how much companies spend
on maintaing building or
getting phone connection from Dot
or getting Internet connection from VSNL
or similar paramters
in addtion they need to recruit and maintain
these staffs on their payroll
though these are not their business

ALL COMPANIES INCLUINDG OLD/NEW/BIG/SMALL
would prefer some others if they can
make available above mentioned parameters "which are necessary to run a IT business" to be available as a service ...from other companies ..

WHY CANT GOVT DO THIS ?

do you think ANY govt in India has the credibility to
provide all those as a service in time ....
It is impossible to become a competent
"Govt service". That is not the case with
developed nations govt services.
If water pipe is broken within 1 hr u get service. In addition to that
no need to pay "BRIBE amount".
Thats why Private companies are preferred here
for these service as a service product from others.
IT companies can buy these service from service
business companies ..


THIS IS WHERE COMPANIES LIKE DIC CAN MAKE
AN IMPACT in KERALA ..THIS IS A NEW BUSINESS MODEL
WHICH CAN EVOLVE AND MAKE KERALA A BETTER
BUSINESS PLACE.

THEY HAVE TH!
E ABILITY/EXPERTISE/and EXPERICNE
to convert this land into SMART CITY and sell to
different IT companies, Govt need not worry
How to get IT companies in kerala DIC like companies will do that ...
give them an opportunity and wait for the result.

2) Your questions about Land price:

Do you have some hands on data[from ur friend
or cousine]what was the
land price in kakkanda in 2002.
Based on the transation they did their.
Not guess answer ..
Can someone who bought land there say what is the price ?
Responses:
[426] [146] [147] [148] [150] [151] [152] [153] [154] [314] [157] [145] [149] [155] [156]
426
Date: January 09, 2006 at 01:14:12
From: sanjay kumar, [nae0148.emirates.net.ae]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
The smart city is an issue.we can talk and discuss a lot on this.This will be like reinventing a wheel.we have to think about the generation who is going to take charge of this nation.Are we doing any thing for them.If the next genaration is benefitting from this than we should go with it.The left out thing this curropion this has to be handled at a grass root level.
-------------------------------------------
Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:56:54
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
Tom

6/14/2005
23:04:27 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Sam..
Let it be X or Y to represent..
Why do you care about that.This is a forum for healthy discussions not personal abuse or attack.
Also i dont think he represented IT professional. He represented as a Citizen of India .People gave different Meanings to it.
IF YOU ARE SOO Concerned YOU ALSO Represent..
PROVIDED IF YOU CAN..
ALL THE BEST ..
Also petition online ..Theres no point in discussing about that here..I can make a petition Signed with 200000 people if needed..Against or supporting Smartcity..THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS RIGHT..
-------------------------------------------
John

6/15/2005
05:31:40 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hi Tom/Joseph

What a surprise ?
It seems VS had no issue with the land price Govt
signed with DIC ...:-)

Honestly few changes which VS suggested are
really worth and glad that both parties are
cooperating together to get smartcity going ...
Hope the favorite question, of you both
is also no more valid in todys cotnext
"What DIC can do in Kerala?"
I see everyone saying We want smartcity in Kerala.
(Including Tom)
But doubts should be cleared..Its OK ...
With an open mind doubts will be cleared ...
Very good .. [Kudos to Ommen and team :-) ..Just to irritate Joseph]

Friends ..How do I propose a new forum ..
I want to suggest a new initiative in Kerala
I am not sure whether this talk is there or not
I see a great opportunity for Kerala to
develop a Health-Related industry ..
and a lot of Job opportunity.

We have the best Doctors(studied in UK,US etc) ..nurses and
if we can invite private parties to
develop World class Hospitals ..with latest
equipements...it is an opportunity.
In addition, Drugs are really !
cheap in India
as compared to developed nations ..
the Insurence companies doesnt control
drung industry in India.

Really good hospitals with specialization in
all the major areas ..
can attract people from all over the world to Kerala for Physical treatment ..
This can be coupled with traditional medicine as well.

Its a great opportunity only thing
similar to IT, Govt has to initiate a proactive approach.

Please suggest ..let it go forth from here to
the people ..

John
-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/15/2005
05:49:35 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Sam,

I was not representing IT professionals.I was just representing myself.
I saw the online forum -I saw Adolph Hitler in the signature list.OOmen Chandy,VS Achudanathen - Are all of them Software professionals?

John, Land price was discussed in the meeting but since the suggestion was to give it as a long term lease instead-that was not part of the changes suggested.And these changes are to the clauses already made public.

The government is as clueless and couldn't provide answers to any of VS's queries....
-------------------------------------------
Sinu Thomas

6/15/2005
07:57:01 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
How do I turn off the "The Notify Me" option once I have turned it on? This thing is spamming my mail box. This forum does not have an "unsubscribe" option? Anybody Please help !!!I am sure I am not alone who has the same problemo here Sorry for the deviation in subject.

Cheers
Sinu
-------------------------------------------
Tom

6/15/2005
08:13:19 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Hope oommen will give some valid answers on 24th.Didnt have any answers in the meeting...
All the news other than manorama reported that well..
See the amendment they made there Bcoz of great leader VS .(They'll take ba!
ck the land if 33300 jobs are not provided)--

-------------------------------------------
Anooj

6/15/2005
09:02:53 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Tom, including the clause of taking back the land in the agreement is good. I endorse that. At the same time, it is just a hypothetical situation that DIC would not be able to provide 33,300 jobs in 10 years time. If that has to come true, another sector should completely replace IT in terms of revenues and job oppurtunites which is quite unlikely atleast in a span of 10 years from now.

i was just wondering, if Karnataka, TN or AP had an oppositon leader like V.S.A, what would have been the plight of these states and what would our poor IT malayalee engineers do then ?

VSA is a great leader for you and me but not i am not quite sure whether thats how it is inside Communist Party. For that we will have to wait and see who becomes the next CM when LDF assumes power next year ( or is this itself a hypothetical situation?? ) God save kerala..

-------------------------------------------

George

6/15/2005
09:48:14 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
I was going thru the msg that mentiosn that the ownership of DIC is still not clear and the DIC is probably not genuine.

I did some google search and could figure out that the DIC is owned by "Dubai Holding" which is an investment arm of the Dubai Government. Which more or lesss proves that the DIC is owned by the Government of Dubai. Relevant links:
http://www.uaeinteract.com/news/default.asp?cntDisplay=10&ID=24
http://www.strategiy.com/ncompany.asp?id=20050607144116
You may also check the website www.dubaiholding.com

Somewhat similar to the ITPL at Bangalore, which is now owned by a bunch of Singapore Investors, including some Government investment arms.

That sounds fair. Like the ONGC signing deals in Sudan or Oman. Do they insist that Manmohan Singh personally sign all deals on b!
ehalf of the ONGC? Nop. The officials sign it. Likewise, the officials of DIC (some of whom are incidentally Malayalees) signed the Smartcity deal! Are we now belittled by the fact that Malayalees signed the deal. We should be proud infact!

In any case, what is the big deal if DIC is a private entity (I repeat it is not, but if)?

Do we deal only with Governments? Name one sane Government in the world that runs IT parks? We will never find a partner if we insist on a true-blooded Government as our partner in IT infrastructure development. What is wrong with private partners? Aren't they much more efficient that Government entities?

Attitude! There are two approaches to this issue. One is that "Hey, we want this Smartcity. Lets examine issues and see how they can be resolved to make this a reality".

The other is "Hey we don't want it. Lets examine issues and see what can be exaggerated to scuttle the project. And top it up with unreasonable demands".


-------------------------------------------
Anooj

6/15/2005
10:17:31 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Fantastic George!!
Now they call VSA great.

If you look at VSA's initial allegations, he was saying DIC has nothing to do with the Dubai government. But when asianet news came out with a declaration that DIC is indeed a part of Dubai Government, VSA stopped those allegations.

Secondly he said, a private consultancy was given 2 crores in the name of Smart City project, which later omman chandy clarified by saying, they had initial plans of involving a consultancy which was finally dropped.

Then again he came out with some baseless corruption allegations which again did not get into the minds of the public.

Now when everything has failed, and he has well understood that the entire state is supporting smart city, some brainee wrote down 6 points in a white paper and gave it to him for presentation in the meeting with CM!
. After that, when CM agreed to look into it, he is claiming that he has made a difference here.

Yes he has made a difference to the lives of people in kerala in the past. But when times are changingand when Kerala is facing a bigger challenge in this 21st century, i certainly do not think that this 82 year old man can lead kerala. I would rather support pinarayi vijayan

-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/16/2005
06:50:24 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:

I had anoppurtunity to hear from the CM and his support group answers to all my queries.They couldn't answer even one.
They have taken back thier stand that DIC belongs to the Dubai government.The link which they provided was that of a zone under which DIC falls.
It says this zone is 'part of the government'. But this link was amended and the amendment reads it 'shall be owned by the government'.Did you get the diference? The Smart city project shall be owned by the Kerala government.(because they have 9% share) Will you say it belongs to the Kerala government? Again this is regarding Tecom and not DIC. Even if your argument of ONGC holds good,will you say everything signed by Keltron is signed by Kerala government? This was discussed on length.

About the consultancy firm too, VS has given that in writing again this time too. HE also gave them papers by which the consultants have a clause that if they are asked to quit they have to be given a penalty.So the question was why were they included? Who decided- as TM Jacob is on records saying there was no cabinet decision. Why was this hidden from the public? How much were they paid? They didnt give any answers- just said will get back

You are trying to support a weak cause.None of the govt. sec. there could defend. I wish it should have been a public debate....

You are showing 'rajabhakthi' beyond the raja.Atleast you should have agreed adding the clause to take back land is in the interest of Kerala.!
The CM agreed that 33300 is a figure reached because they were asked to give 100 acres of land free.And that there is no other arithmetic in this... Then...

Tom

6/16/2005
07:14:06 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Excellent Joseph .Excellent.
What other details you need more than this. Guys
You all ask our CM to keep an Open Debate then we'll see to it.
First time iam hearing the no of jobs decided based on land given..
-------------------------------------------
Anooj

6/16/2005
08:44:33 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:

Read a news item today saying AP government is willing to handover 2000 acres of land to Smart City absolutely free. I dont know how far is it true!!!
-------------------------------------------
George B.

6/16/2005
09:11:31 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Joseph,

1. You did not say anything about Dubai Holding and the links that I provided.
OK, it may sound like more loyal than the king attitude, but I
wish to hear from you. Besides, if you are so sure that the Dubai
Government does not own it, then why don't you guys tell us who owns it,
and the shareholding pattern.

The other point being, what IF it is a private entity?

2. The mention about consultants. I'm sure there was debate on this too.
Sorry for repeat questions, but whats wrong with consultants? Is it such
a bad thing to have a consultant in a project? I recall the consultant
controversy about the Japan drinking water project. We are still in the
controversy stage, I think. Whereas in Karanataka, the same consultants
came, did their part, executed the project and went back!

3. The last question being, OK, scrap Smartcity. Do we have another
project in mind which can be given the same land at the same rate (I am not asking for the cost that VS projects) that
can at least promise 20000 jobs? (I owe credit to!
this question to
another poster on another forum)

Put another way, suggest something where this land can be put to a
better use.


You guys are raising many "Laa Points" to silence the Chief Minister.
And on the CM's part, I think he tried to cover-up, like in case of
consultants, possibly because he is aware of Kerala's obsession with
consultants and love for controversies. You have cornered him on some
not-so-important issues and trying to prove that the deal is fake.
What responsible people will do is to tell the CM that he is bluffing,
warn him and let continue with the project. Or go file a case. Showing
outright hositility is not understandable.


I posted another url earlier, that is a response to you from Manoj V.
Read it, please.

If you start with public debate and all that tamasha, please be assured
that the DIC will flee.

You mentioned about taking back the land. Instead why not have a clause
(its probably there already, or will find place in the final agreement)
that specifies that the land will be used for an Internet City only and
that it cannot be resold. Which investor will agree that his land can be
confiscated if the employment generation does not reach the projected
levels? Should we confiscate a factory land (say, given at a concessional rate) if they run into lossess?


ps: I read today's news that the DIC is now annoyed and are talking to
YSR Reddy. So you win


-------------------------------------------
Manoj

6/16/2005
11:38:41 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
read the news

"DIC is now talking to YSR Reddy, Andra Pradesh Govt, AP is ready to give 2000 acers of land free"


1) Yes smartcity project and 33000 IT job opportunity should be cancelled because
DIC web page says it is an autonomous body ?

2) Yes smartcity project and!
33000 IT job opportunity should be cancelled because
Govt hired a consultancy sometime back
and VSA feels there is corruption

3) Yes smartcity project and 33000 IT job opportunity should be cancelled because
Govt failed to answer a list 10000 stupid
questions some fools asked ...
These fools feel if no one answer their stupid
questions there is no "freedom in Kerala" ..
They dont understand keep on asking question
is not the correct way to approach and solve
the problem that is nothing but poverty of Kerala people..

4) Yes smartcity project and 33000 IT job opportunity should be cancelled because VSA and his team feels Govt
should invest and make smartcity
Same time Govt has 50000 crores debt ..
no money for drinking water project
"basic road' project and other important projects..

5) Yes smartcity project and 33000 IT job opportunity should be cancelled because
real estate in Cochin went up and many people
made money out of that deal so to defeat
those business peole defeat the entire
KERALA people.

Why dont we educate ourself ?

The person who asked most number of stupid questions in this forum appeared to be the
one who represented VSA and his team ..

Now We understand how much knowledge level
oppostion group had ...And they say CM had
no answer for some of their questions,
Dont they understand that their questions were
nothing but stupid jargons ..

What worse can happen to this 100% literate state?
People need to arise and work together
Otherwise nothing constructive will happen in this land

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Date: October 07, 2005 at 02:58:40
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
08:40:08 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
This Comrade Joseph Joseph is from canda, working in an IT MNC.

H eis opposing all development sin Kerala. In Kerala he is opposing IT, but working as a slave for a Canadian MNC.

Shame on this Communist.

He was already defeated by pro-Smart City iT Professionals in YourSmartCity.com discussion forum. Finally he quit the forum. He is a real coward.


Regards,

Rivaji
-------------------------------------------
Riva T philip

6/18/2005
08:40:28 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
This Comrade Joseph Joseph is from canda, working in an IT MNC.

H eis opposing all development sin Kerala. In Kerala he is opposing IT, but working as a slave for a Canadian MNC.

Shame on this Communist.

He was already defeated by pro-Smart City iT Professionals in YourSmartCity.com discussion forum. Finally he quit the forum. He is a real coward.


Regards,

Rivaji
-------------------------------------------
Riva T philip

6/18/2005
08:40:47 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
This Comrade Joseph Joseph is from canda, working in an IT MNC.

H eis opposing all development sin Kerala. In Kerala he is opposing IT, but working as a slave for a Canadian MNC.

Shame on this Communist.

He was already defeated by pro-Smart City iT Professionals in YourSmartCity.com discussion forum. Finally he quit the forum. He is a real coward.


Regards,

Rivaji
-------------------------------------------
SSS

6/18/2005
22:46:03 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
-Eda Riva..
Poda ...
Iam not using any stupid words now as i'll spoil the discussion.
Rivaji..IT cell.Poyi thoongi chakada.
Ninne avidunnum ividunnum ellam oodichathalle..
-No one can defeat valid points m!
an.Also
i dont think the Joseph in this forum is a member in the other one.--
Other one is a guy from canada.But his points also were excellent.

-------------------------------------------
SSS

6/18/2005
22:46:59 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
-Eda Riva..
Poda ...
Iam not using any stupid words now as i'll spoil the discussion.
Rivaji..IT cell.Poyi thoongi chakada.
Ninne avidunnum ividunnum ellam oodichathalle..
-No one can defeat valid points man.Also
i dont think the Joseph in this forum is a member in the other one.--
Other one is a guy from canada.But his points also were excellent.

-------------------------------------------
Joseph

6/19/2005
07:34:39 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:

Riva,

As all your other views ,the biodata of mine which you submitted is also baseless. You really are a congress man.

-------------------------------------------

JP

6/19/2005
19:45:48 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Joseph,
This is my first posting and thanks for sharing your time and effort to bring up lot of good data points.

Regarding the 6 points you mentioned, primary responsibility of any govt is the well being of its citizen. Agreed. If a project like smart city can bring in some development/money/job/standard of living it should looked with that interest in mind. Whether a real estate devlopment company or a govt company or a MNC should not be the sole reason for accepting or rejecting a propsal. And as we all aware any company's interest will be to make money they are not here for charity. But then in the process of they making money, if it bring some good for the citizen it is a welcome deal. Right now kerala govt has a very little negotiating power in terms of attracting the kind of development neighbouring states are seeing. The reason is the amount of money it has in the treasury. We got to give something to get something. Now let us not look!
about the past and look forward and see that what all things they can do to change some of the things.

DIC will and can go the neighbouring states. If they go we will loose an oppurtunity, whether we can develop something similar to what DIC had in mind by oursleves, is a debatable topic. We have technopark but it is nothing great compared to what other states where able to achieve in same kind of timeframe. So we need money in terms of loans to make something like DIC have in mind. And to do it fast(like 1 or 2 yrs) in order to over come the late start we had is very diffcult. I am not implying we have to agree with every terms of DIC agreement. But we have to negotiate come to some agreeable terms.

My personal opinion about your 6 points is, it is definitly in favour of kerala govt, but it doesnot do any good to the common man.

Comments

1) Infopark should not be sold - Agreed, If DIC can have bring more infrastructure and better communication we will have to look at their proposal or see what they have in mind. Somtimes economies of scale will help everyone.

2) Should take a written assurance from DIC that they'll use the land only for IT/ITES only
- Completely agree


3)Should give the land on long term lease -instead of outright sale(thats how its done even for Wipro in infopark recently)
- if you are talking about 99 yr lease I have no problems here but if you are saying like 10 - 20 year lease it is difficult for a company to do spend lot of money without many things in hand for a real good time.

4)Should include the provision to take the land back in case DIC does not generate adequate jobs
- Again who can give gurrantees in this world. If you have a clause which says it is going to be used only for IT operations, and if all the outsourcing that is going on start going to china and south eastern coutries what can DIC do.? It should be "either" "or" here, either give them the flexibi!
lity to change according to the demand or ask them operate on your terms.

If the demand is for outsourcing health care if they cannot operate healthcare in that area how can they gurranntee job in IT then.?

5)Since we are providing 90% of the infrastructure,we should take 51% of the share instead of 9%.

51% will make majority share, with majority in a political party(govt) and what is the interest for a private compnay to excel. Though I agree 9% is low but not 51%. For having 51% share we should have real negotiating power, I don't think we have that with the present situation.

6) Conduct the deal as per the prevailing IT policy.
- If it is a dynamic policy with the need and competiition in mind then it is ok otherwise the policy itself doesnot provide much of a use.

Again look after the need of the citizen first then the party's ideology or interst.

- Just my thought and comments.

Disclaimer: I have no personal interest in any party or project or in IT
-------------------------------------------
Anooj

6/20/2005
08:55:47 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
I have a doubt here. What is this 90% infrastructure that the government is providing ?
Can someone educate me on this point ?

If it is the land provided to DIC, then they are paying for that land. Then if it is the roads, water, electricity etc, then I guess they will be paying the tax and other relevant charges like any other organization in the state. Like it happens everywhere else in the world, it is the duty of the government to provide these basic facilities. Instead if the government asks for a 51% share for providing all these, it is ridiculous.

What else is the government providing?

Info park? Then I guess DIC is paying for that as well. For the better prospects of Info park, i suggest it has to go into the smart city or else the fate of Info park will be same as that of Techno park. Even after 10 years, w!
e will not have anything great to talk about Info park.

The reason for 9% stake is this. For any organization, as the rule goes, if the government has more than 9% stake, then a government official should be made a member of the directorial board. I personally think, this is a great move. Why do we need a government official in their directorial body ? Is it a move to bring someone in the LDF party (if at all LDF party assumes power next year) onto the top level of smart city? It is a pure political motive, and dont think that common people are not understanding this.

Rest of the points seems valid, but i dont see a reason for this hue and cry. A healthy discussion like the one which happend on 13th was the only neccessity. Instead why did the oppositon leader bark about baseless corruption and involvement of a consultancy without even having proper proof ?

As George (6/15/2005 - 09:48:14) pointed out, it is the attitude of people in kerala which is the biggest problem and the most painful aspect out of all is that people who are educated and in the IT field are going against this. SAD!!!!

George

6/20/2005
09:52:48 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
SmartCity is the single largest FDI proposed in the history of Kerala, if I am right.

Instead of welcoming it and trying to make it a reality, we continue to raise points!

How does it matter if there is an outright sale of land? Are we sitting on some holy land (God's own country!) that can't be sold? Technically there is a difference between a 99 year lease and outright sale, but honestly, does it really matter?

The only thing that is not clear in this deal is, why the Government wants to handover Infopark to DIC. I think the Government should be able explain this. Personally, let me add that it is not the Government's business to run IT Parks. Besides, the Government is getting more than what they spent on the Park, so its not rea!
lly a loss.

Achuthanandan's demands are packaged like they are in the best interest of Kerala. But it is nothing but tactics used by spoilers. Kerala has enough land that may even be given free of cost, the problem is attracting investors!



Responses:
[148] [150] [151] [152] [153] [154] [314] [157]
148
Date: October 07, 2005 at 03:00:13
From: Mb, [31-161]
Subject: Re: Smart City and other developmental issues
-------------------------------------------
Sam T

6/20/2005
10:09:12 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
It is clear that ignorant stupids like Joseph are steering VS towards political suicide. Smartcity is gone from Kerala. AP is ready to provide 2000 acres free. Coming generations will never pardon these fools. Joseph is a traitor to kerala trying to clinch deal when LDF comes to power. What is his IT credentials??? One thing is certain Joseph, Pinaraayi is next CM and your designs are never going to succeed....
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sree

6/20/2005
11:13:35 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
this is my first message to this forum..what i would like to know is what is the need of setting up a new infrastructure in cochin when Technopark and Infopark are already there?....
won't it be much better if the goverment take interest in inviting MNC's to technopark and infopark rather than trying to set up all these and then making a trial....
its more that 12 yrs ,Technopark started functioning...and it is only now the new companies are coming...if Kerala is a paradise for the IT companies to develop ,why we failed to bring the multinationals long before?

only by setting up a new one cochi we can provide job to these 33000 ppl that too in 10 yrs!!!!?


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Anooj

6/20/2005
11:42:29 RE: Smart City and other developmental issues

Message:
Back to square one with Sree's question Sree, if you get a chance, please visit Bangalore, Chennai, Hyder